exactly, i was pounced on by a few yank airborne guys who asked me to join there group. airsoft or reenactment...... i honestly cant see a difference these days.
i have been to reenactments in airsoft ww2 gear with an AEG and no-one knew till i told them.
I noticed a few TM M1A1's at the war and peace show a while back
I`m an adult playing at soldiers, simple as that. Its not much different to what I did as a kid. Airsoft is just a tool, I can`t call myself a reenactor as I don`t have the dedication or money. The period kit is just a tool as well, it helps to create the immersion part of the hobby, although the one thing that is missing and for very good reason is the fear/danger factor. While its ok moving tactically and skulking around, deep down I knew I wasn`t in a life or death situation.
I haven`t been to an open day for ages, during my last game I came across a rule which I found quite good and remedied a real bugbear I had. I could never get used to shouting hit and standing/ sitting around waving a bandage, it ruined the whole experience, so I was pleased that the site ran a game where when hit you sank to the ground maybe with a few groans or screams and played dead until you were medic'd or the game ended.
Lying with your face in the mud or slumped against a door with your eyes closed was quite interesting as you weren`t aware of what was going on anymore, it also had the impact of not letting both sides know how many team members they were losing. I found it a bit of a revelation as there were silent bodies lying around instead of waving white bandages, its probably not everyones cup of tea as its disorientating and would put some people out of their comfort zone as they may be lying dead for quite some time. Personally its the one rule in five years of playing that I found helped in the immersive aspect.
I was pleased that the site ran a game where when hit you sank to the ground maybe with a few groans or screams and played dead until you were medic'd or the game ended.
That's exactly what we used at Op. Lighting, and we were all very impressed with the results too.
That's exactly what we used at Op. Lighting, and we were all very impressed with the results too.
Yep, definitely adds to the atmosphere and puts you on your toes when you come round a corner and see a cluster of "dead" bodies.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
We also shouldn't allow a blurring of the line between reality and pretendy.
Real war is obviously shit. Some people die and others are irrevocably f**ked up. Not everyone who has been there wants to be reminded of it. My grandad refused to go to any old comrades gig. In his words "It was bad enough being there, why would I want to remember it?"
WWII airsofting, re-enacting, re-enairsofting or Nu-re-enairsofting (my personal favourite) has much more in common with war movies - it look cool, the bullets and bombs are fake everyone stays alive and well and gets home before teatime.
We do it because it's fun and because we like dressing up and playing at soldiers. I'd have to walk away gritting my teeth if I ever heard a re-enactor say something like "we dropped into Arnhem wearing one of these" - no mate, YOU didn't do any such thing!!!
to be honest beds, i have not heard anyone at a reenactment weekend say "i " did this or that, its a case of " we represent the kings own fish and chip regiment who faught at blah blah blah" and when asked questions its a case of "they " did this or that.
I've only ever said 'we' when referring to the Staffordshire regiment and as a former member/soldier of that regiment I feel I'm entitled to. Its only in certain situations do I use 'we' and its never when trying to steal any valour off others.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Yup... I always say stuff like "The soldiers we portray did x, y and z" etc...
There is a place for 1st person re-enacting, but you better make sure you do it 100% right... and it's fecking hard!
Yes, please I asked for person opinions here
No one is being dictatorial saying you must do this or that - I did say in my initial post, the rules of this thread, that there is no right or wrong answer, just personal viewpoints.Incidentally, debate has been top notch so far (if we could steer clear of conventional reenactment then so much the better
).
I believe that CW means that the conventional re enactment is not what we do, we have certain aspects of it, but generally the battle/games/events we do are more fluid than re enactment events. Any number of parameters can change the outcome, unlike the scripted re encatmnt events.
gadge, good points mate, I do agree with pretty much every thing you say. Your self being ex staffs, of course gives you the right to use the "we". I'm ex 10th infantry Irish army and when refering to them I also use we. I do wince as well, at the "we jumped" bit, silly and more than a bit offenceive to those who did.
Sgt Heide, please mate don't think I was having a personal go at you, sadly your post was the first one to point out the respect thing. I have heard that point use to bolster some untenable positions in my time. you having served, are the last person I need to lecture on true war.
Now I'm not saying that only ex soldiers should be allowed to attend games/wear uniforms and it is excellent when ex service men and women comment on what we do, god knows they deserve so much more than they are given.
I like the term Nu-re enacting, but rather than trying to compartmentalise ourselfs, why not just be what we are very acurate WW2 airsofters.
er... we do read the field manuals and do period section training and drills.but i know what your saying.
Stamper, well said, well said indeed. I have learned so much from this. Its the reason I am now so less interested in the battles/tanks/ect and so much more leaning towards the real experences of the men and women who were there. true all of us with enough money can have a pukka kit, but still know sod all about the war,'cept is cool! 
lol.. Yes I have quite a collection of real Brit ones and quite a few PDFs of the US ones.
But do I really need to know how to organise a whole companies rations?
No, I read the bits I actually need... 
I think Mr C-W summed it up in his last sentence from the first post, "educational and fun"
Would an American airsoft NCO expect not to fire his weapon all weekend coz he's running around sorting his mens well being, positions, ammo supply, food supply etc ,
No coz you do airsoft to shoot weapons.
Funnily enough in PBI we expect NCOs to lead sections and direct them rather than get stuck in.
At our last event i barely fired a shot and only carried a revolver for the day as I was too busy directing guys and organising stuff.
While i get your point entirely it also very important to realise that the regular soldiers of then were less professional in many respects than our TA today.
They were on the whole after 44 (when we do most our games) conscripts and citizen soldiers who really did not want to be there. Professional armies of the 30s were incredibly small (the American army particularly so)
While we might think they 'd been training for years it really depended on your theatre and nationality... recruits to the battered german divisions in 45 woudl be lucky to have two weeks training let alone two years.
Our group take time to have training days where we learn 1940s drill and tactics from the field manuals, while the majority of PBI do not do full re-enactment we try to play our games as in character and accurately as possible.
For example I'd never say 'Dave can you grab hold of Yith for me' it would always be 'Cpl Warner, could you possibly fetch Mr Heath over here?'
For me its a small thing but the fact PBI get into using our ranks (more or less freely cycled about there is no snobbishness about it, you fancy a go at being a L/cpl then you are welcome) and refer to each other in the correct terms adds to the immersion in the event.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
For me its a small thing but the fact PBI get into using our ranks (more or less freely cycled about there is no snobbishness about it, you fancy a go at being a L/cpl then you are welcome) and refer to each other in the correct terms adds to the immersion in the event.
Er yes I was a Lt at Op Lightning. I'll be a Pte at Crich (most of the time.)
hmm interesting discussion! Ive always had an interest in ww2 history, and as a kid always played soldiers, the closest thing to that was when we did land exercises when i was in the Navy - discovering airsoft was like that reliving the action and excitement of a skirmish.... Ive always wanted to do a ww2 loadout so CIA was the perfect place for that. I still go to open days and i enjoy them immensely, The games at cia offer a much deeper level of immersion than is possible on a normal open day, but the reason i will say that were not really re-enactors is the one of compulsion.
When i looked at getting into re-enacting, the uniform requirements were incredibly prescriptive to the point of having to spend hundreds of pounds before you even strted, whereas with CIA the minimum kit requirements made it easy and welcoming to get involved, getting my kit better and better has come from being surrounded by a bunch of like minded individuals and being INSPIRED to do so not TOLD. thats the big difference i think. Also most CIA's games have been fictional, and even at arnhem the brits won.... so its not re-enacting in the true sense of the word. Although it is on an individual level.
I like the competitive element, that fact that a battles outcome depends on the character and spirit of the men and their leadership on the day rather than a script which needs to be followed. In that sense its a game, not re-enacting (or what i understand re-enacting to be)....... or is it deep re-enacting? hmmm im confused. even when I go to open days I like my kit to be correct eg i have a splinter DDR loadout ( which i can also use my MP44 with!) , soon to have a South African special forces loadout with an R4(Galil) .......... so maybe i am a reenactor at heart.... I suppose its how you see yourself.....
Vorsprung durch Blitzkreig !
Speed, aggression and Hugo Boss
the innocent have nothing to fear......[img][/img]
RE Yiths last post.
Indeed and while playing Plt Sgt for a fair bit of the day Rich and I will miraculously swap ranks for rifle drill as he knows what hes doing with a lee enfield and i dont!
Which re-enforces my point that the whole giving orders thing is more that to sensibly replicate a 1940s environment , unit tactics and unit itself you need to all play along with the structure or it falls apart.
Its not self appointed rightness nor any sort of ego trip.
If someone really feels they can play that role convincingly or has the necessary knowledge and skills then they can portray that, as long as we have a quick heads up before hand to agree which *two* of us in the section are ncos then it doesnt look stupid like a section of sgts would.
Another good example would be Sgt Heide joining PBI, while I can teach marksmanship and field craft his knowledge far surpasses mine and so it makes perfect sense to appoint him as a Cpl and small arms instructor.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
As regards giving and following orders, I find that a realistic command structure gives a far more realistic experience, and I am quite happy to be a lowly Grenadier or Private. For me, skulking around woodland like some sort of lone hunter is not at all realistic. I get my enjoyment from trying to recreate an authentic atmosphere, not from doing what I please.
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
RE Yiths last post.
Indeed and while playing Plt Sgt for a fair bit of the day Rich and I will miraculously swap ranks for rifle drill as he knows what hes doing with a lee enfield and i dont!
I've cut down Gadges last post for the sake of ease,
Kudos to those who want something like this, but that sort of structure may not work of everyone. Horses for courses. Dog Co. has a very loose unit structure, but it works well. I would have loved to have joined a group on here, but work and in most cases as well distance would have ment I would have only been in the group in name only. so I float around and add hopefully sensibly when I can.
Both point of view are valid and I would be a complete idiot to assume that I am right and every one else is wrong.
New motto. "what ever works"
modern players at open days ......... to play properly as a SF commando or a black hawk down ranger, they would in the real world, have a command structure. never see it though, its usually the guy with the biggest gun and mouth. then its a case of lone ranger time because what he knows about battlefield tactics can be carved on the back of an asprin with an axe. i need the "feel " of being part of a unit. it makes me want to play better, it makes me want to earn a promotion. airsoft or reenactor...... you decied.
RE Stamper
No totally agreed.
I mean British units were appalling in many respects until 'battle drill' and the battle drill schools were established, many UK units at Dunkirk folded after loosing their NCOs and officers as nobody knew the plan - in contrast the Whermacht trained every soldier to d the job of his superior and his superiors superior in case they died (something we still pretyt much do today)
I only used US as an example as they probably had the biggest influx on 'citizen soliders' of the western allies having the a tiny standing army in 39 and a mahoosive one in 45.
Point I was trying to make is some of the groups on here do strive to be as authentic as possible while still having fun;
No apology necessary
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I think Mr C-W summed it up in his last sentence from the first post, "educational and fun"
Would an American airsoft NCO expect not to fire his weapon all weekend coz he's running around sorting his mens well being, positions, ammo supply, food supply etc ,
Funnily enough in PBI we expect NCOs to lead sections and direct them rather than get stuck in.
At our last event i barely fired a shot and only carried a revolver for the day as I was too busy directing guys and organising stuff.
.
Ditto that. I don't shoot that often anymore; too busy running the games! (ie: being CO)
Even when I wasn't organising at Op Lightning I enjoyed it most when I was unable to shoot because of my 'undercover' roles.
